Talk:The City on the Edge of Forever (episode)
Mirror Universe Is it possible that the (postulated) Axis victory precipitated by the marriage of Dr McCoy and Edith Keeler could be the "point of divergence" that created the Mirror Universe? j/w - 09:21, 13 Aug 2004 (CEST) :From what I've read, the original draft of this episode did indeed feature the Enterprise becoming a savage pirate-like version of itself after the timeline was altered. However, this can only be considered enjoyable speculation, as it never appeared on screen. TheFallen 19:06, 29 Aug 2005 (UTC) Music The DVDs have restored the "Goodnight Sweetheart" music to the episode. :Do you mean the new full-season boxes? Can't speak to them, but the first DVDs still had the replacement version of the song, not the original one, identical to the version on the VHS copy. There's a book called "The Music of Star Trek" that mentions this. ::I'm having a hard time finding my Season One Box Set. Somebody please verify this. AC84 03:55, 1 Jan 2006 (PST) :::The "single volume" DVDs did indeed have the music restored, but the cover description says otherwise (I specifically looked for this when I bought it back then). From what I have heard, the DVDs went out with this print, but Paramount didn't expected it to. They then had to pay the licensing fee for Goodnight Sweetheart and now every edition will have it. The box sets have that same corrected print. "That's funny." This line does seem a little out of place-- I've always assumed Kirk was giving Spock a hard time. Spock had just said, "Unbelievable.", so Kirk's comment has always seemed like gentle sarcasm directed at Spock, as if to say, "Oh, really-- I would never have expected you to say that!" :The explanation is somewhat out of order. Kirks' statement of "That's funny." follows Spock's simple comment of "Unbelievable Captain", preceding any comments or descriptions of how he cannot explain the functioning of the Guardian.--Redknight 16:07, December 18, 2009 (UTC) I believe "That's funny" belongs after Spock's next statement. Kirk should have said "That's funny" and follow it with "Explain". 07:25, September 11, 2011 (UTC)AJBQC Script dates According to Sir Rhosis, another MA user, the January 27 script was labeled a "shooting script" with the title page dated Jan. 27 with every page inside dated January 30--Robert Treat 04:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC). Circumstances leading to Edith's death Although I am a big fan of this episode, one seeming discrepancy has troubled me. This is only one interpretation, of course, but there seems to be an implication that in the "original" timeline, Edith died pretty much in the circumstances we saw -- crossing *that* street at that time, getting hit by *that* truck. Because McCoy emerges from the mission while she's in the middle of the street, there also seems to be an implication that he saw the truck bearing down on her and ran out into the street to save her. But in the scene we saw depicted, Edith was on the other side of the street only because Kirk walked her there and crossing the street only because she was puzzled by Kirk's odd behavior and then, first, his apparent knowledge of McCoy and then, second, his obvious knowledge of McCoy as the doctor and the captain embrace. In the "original" timeline, what was she doing in the middle of the street? One could say that she could have been crossing the street at any time, as she no doubt did. But to me the scene implies that the "original" history went pretty much (or exactly) as we saw it, except for the Starfleet officers' presence. :See predestination paradox. --From Andoria with Love 02:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC) ::This question may be answered by Spock's reply to Gary Seven's question of the same nature in Assignment: Earth. Seven remarks that despite the interference of Kirk and company, the nuclear weapon was detonated at exactly the altitude history recorded it at. Spock then says, "We did not interfere-- we were merely a part of the actual history on that day." In the actual timeline, as it played out in 1930, Kirk and company were in existence for a few weeks in New York City and were the reason why things happened the way they did. ::Gandalf voices similar commments in "The Fellowship of the Ring", telling Frodo that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring of Power in his groping in the darkness, that it was predestined. -- OK, but then envision the timeline in which Edith wasn't hit by the truck, the one that McCoy created by saving her. Where were Kirk and Spock then? :::If I understand your question correctly, Kirk and Spock were still on the Guardian's Planet with the rest of the landing party from the Enterprise when McCoy saved Ms. Keeler. They had not yet left to go back in time. Bear in mind, the speed at which time travels on the Guardian's Planet is much slower. Hence, that is why Scotty commented upon their return, "What's the matta sir? You've only been gone a moment." --submitted by Silver Spring, MD ::::Illogical. There are indeed curious temporal distortions emanating from the planet, but it does not necessarily follow that time travels at a different speed because the travelers returned after only a short duration. With the ability to traverse time, there is no reason the flow of time between two arbitrary points should be related. Indeed, McCoy's adventure confirms that this is not the case. He departs earlier (from the present), arrives later (in the past), and yet returns at the same time as Kirk and Spock. His perceived time is less, yet he was gone for much longer than "a moment", as if you will recall it took time for Kirk and Spock to form their rescue plan. ::::It is far more likely therefore that the Guardian simply chose to return them immediately after they had departed. 04:52, 12 March 2007 (UTC) Top 100 * This episode ranks #1 at Slightly Warped's Star Trek Top 100. I don't think this information is useful, else we'll going to list every top XYZ (which are changing constantly) from every website. - Philoust123 17:17, 2 June 2006 (UTC) Uhura's Costume In the early bridge scenes of this episode, Uhura seems to be wearing a black armband around her left forearm. Has anyone else noticed this or does anyone have an explanation. The armband is gone by the time she beams down to the planet. 15:49, 8 October 2006 (UTC) :I noticed it too, no luck finding anything online either. Maybe Nichelle Nichols used it as a headband to keep her hair in place and took it off just before the shot. Anybody? --Roygbiv666 13:46, 19 April 2009 (UTC) Ellison paperback 1977? What book is this that has been added to the 1970s timeline? I don't think there is such a book. Maybe you're thinking about the fact that the script for "City" was published in an anthology called "Six Science Fiction Plays" around 1976. Sir Rhosis 20:20, 30 October 2006 (UTC) : I'm the one that added it. Haven't a clue what it is, but I found it on Amazon with the ASIN B000JL0G68. -- StAkAr Karnak 21:34, 30 October 2006 (UTC) I looked -- it is just a copy of the Fotnovel someone is selling. As I said, add "Six Science Fiction Plays," edited by Roger Elwood, 1976 to your timeline. Ellison's script is one of the teleplays published in that anthology. Sir Rhosis 01:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Also, you left out that Ellison's original teleplay won a Writers Guild Award for Best one hour dramatic script for a continuing series for 1967. Sir Rhosis 01:53, 31 October 2006 (UTC) : It's not my timeline. This is a community effort. Anyone is more than welcome to change it as they see fit. :-) -- StAkAr Karnak 02:59, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Oh, I know. Just thought it would be polite to allow you to change it. Sir Rhosis 08:06, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Removed background information I have removed the following: * It has been suggested that this (the 1930s period) is the focal point at which the original timeline split and created the "mirror universe"--where mankind takes on adverse qualities like overt aggression and an imperialistic attitude--characteristics commonly attributed to the Nazi regime which was destined to rule Earth following the U.S. government's embrace of Ms. Keeler's peaceful influence. For one thing, who is this suggested by? For another, have we ever had anything lead us to believe that there is any moment when the two universes split? I've always been under the impression that the prime universe and the mirror universe were always opposed the way they are. Therefore to me, this seems to be two levels of speculation, much like the Khan/September 11th attacks connection. It speculates that the two universes had any one point of divergence, and then speculates what point that is. Even if I am wrong, and at some point in canon there was a hint that the universes even had a divergence point rather than always being different, establishes that the point of divergence had to have been before World War I. The opening credits of those episodes contained imagery in that universe from World War I, and therefore before the 1930s. For all of these reasons, I think this note needs to go. --OuroborosCobra talk 21:59, 11 May 2007 (UTC) Background Info/Quote I'm a 'new person' just checking info-but i have some input: in the background info-story and production section it says the song is 'goodnight sweetheart, goodnight'- it is not- the Wikipedia link is-of course- also incorrect- that title is a totally different song than in the show...the correct song is just: "goodnight sweetheart" (by the way- does anyone know who the artist and record-etc. is of the right song originally in the show??) another issue: in -memorable quotes- of all the special quotes-the only one not there and that is also missing in the chop-shop syndicated TV version- is- perhaps- the greatest quote in this show- in all the star trek shows put together- and maybe even the greatest quote of all time anywhere (excuse the 'pun'-time): "Someday, they're going to take all the money that they spend now on war and killing - and make them spend it on life!" -Edith Keeler talking to Captain Kirk, with him finishing the last part. Every time I hear it, it gives me chills up my spine! "Let me help" Novelist I thought that Kirk specifically mentioned that the novelist was a Vulcan, leading to the assumption that the planet Vulcan was located in Orion's belt. However, later, someone (Roddenberry?) altered this by adding that even though the novelist was a Vulcan, he wasn't living on Vulcan. : Never heard that mentioned, ever. Fontana, who wrote most of the final shooting script, does in fact have Kirk mention the novelist's name. First name was Patrick, middle and last names were basically unpronounceable, vaguely Hawaiian. It is mentioned in my review of the script, located here: http://www.fastcopyinc.com/orionpress/articles/cityrewrite.htm Sir Rhosis :In fact, the novelist's name is already in the article, under the section talking about Bonner the Stochastic. Sir Rhosis 20:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC) Goodnight, Sweetheart, Goodnight Is it ever made clear whether Goodnight, Sweetheart, Goodnight is diegetic or non-diegetic music, i.e. are they actually listening to it or is it being played 'over the episode'? If Kirk and Keeler are genuinely listening to it, then there should be an article on it, no? --Jayunderscorezero 20:06, 23 October 2007 (UTC) Yeoman I removed this bit: :Though uncredited, the yeoman at the beginning of this episode looks like Maurishka Taliaferro, who appears in the next episode, "Operation -- Annihilate!", as Yeoman Zahra Jamal. Because she's not in the next shots of the bridge, we can assume that her appearance is stock footage from that episode (which was filmed later, but was in post-production at the same time as this one). I don't think we should assume any such thing, since except for black hair and red uniforms, the two women don't look anything alike. - Bridge 07:54, 21 November 2007 (UTC) Spock Shaking Hands? When McCoy emerges from the mission Kirk & Spock spring toward him; Kirk and McCoy do an awkward hug and Spock comes VERY CLOSE to doing same. In the next shot of the three McCoy and Spock are very clearly shaking hands in an animated fashion - something it's difficult to imagine Spock even considering especially as it involves McCoy - drugs and time travel notwithstanding. Major Plot Hole Why is it never explained in the script, after McCoy beams down to the planet surface, they don't simply locate him and beam him back up, instead of beaming a search party down to the planet? It can't be because of interference from whatever "time-space distortion" may be emanating from the Guardian because they are able to lock onto and beam up the landing party at the end. Any ideas? --Dead jim 23:47, November 3, 2009 (UTC) Citation needed The following note has lacked citation for over two years now: * Rick Berman likens this to be the best and most dramatic effort in the original series, and a direct contrast to , which was used as a template for ''Star Trek: Deep Space Nine s tribute to the original series, in 1996.'' – Cleanse ( talk | ) 05:36, September 8, 2010 (UTC) Removed * This episode closely resembles the Mission Impossible titled "Nicole", in which Collins plays a spy of the same name where Jim Phelps falls in love with her and she is killed at the end. This needs a citation that the similarity is intentional to be restored. - 17:25, June 30, 2011 (UTC) More Removed * Harlan Ellison objected to Collins' assessment, as that was not what the pacifist Edith ever tried to do. Removed (originally after the cited note about Collins' assessment of the episode) as it has lacked a citation for two years now.--Cleanse ( talk | ) 00:51, July 1, 2012 (UTC) Tricorder? One thing I never understood in the episode was why they were "Unable to view the video acquired on the tricorder to determine McCoy's arrival date and the cause of the timeline contamination". Was there an explanation in the episode? Shouldn't a tricorder be able to access any info stored on it? :Roygbiv666 (talk) 04:03, February 11, 2013 (UTC)